PaataShaala Guest Lecture – Nai Talim, by Shiv Dutt Mishra, Nai Talim Samiti
Date: 2nd September 2008
Participants:
Prof. Swaminathan, retired IIT Delhi Professor, Historian
Balakailasam, Director
Sashikant, Director
Arvind, Professor
Rajsri, Teacher, Sevagram
Ravitha Bhatia, Teacher
Uday Meghani, Activist / Social worker
Chitra Nagesh, Freelance Researcher
Krishnan, Graphic Designer / Activist
Ranjith Henry, Kolam
Balakrishnan, Centre for Women’s Development
Bhuvana, Parent
Ram, Samanvaya
Priya, Samanvaya
A summary of Shri. Shiv Dutt Mishra’s Talk in First person
Let’s take the phrase Nai Talim – “Nai” means new and Talim, which is an Urdu word, means “Education”. On October 22nd 1937 there was a conference in Wardha on education, which was when it was formulated this way, but it was not a new concept that came up that day. Gandhiji started his experiments with education, beginning from his own children, and many years of such experiments came to be called as Nai Talim.
There are 3 basic questions – Why education? What education? And how education?, which have to be answered by any educationist. In his experiments, Gandhiji was very clear that he will work for an education that will not make the person, a servant. Perhaps, he becomes a servant of livelihood, which is a very small part of his entire life. This is not education.
We see today also that education is imparted only for examinations. Those who have an array of educational titles still do not have jobs and those who have little education are still able to support their families. How is this? So, all of the hungama of conventional education, particular syllabus, exams and whatnot are not going to give a person knowledge, practical or otherwise. Even a Ph.D or an M.Sc would not have the confidence or time to teach his own children, he will send them to school! We all know the shortcomings of the mainstream education system that we have and let us not go into it further.
One of the core ideas of Nai Talim is that, education is child-centric, correlated to the swabhava of the child, particularly the Basic and Primary education. The child is not burdened with the idea of learning and education. For instance, modern neurologists say that any child cannot concentrate beyond 15 minutes on one thing, so then we have to make things interesting and fun, maybe bring in change every 15 minutes. Making a child sit in one place and asking him or her to listen or write etc for 40-45 minutes is violence. The child’s nature is to do, create, explore. If we convert the idea of discipline, that listening to the “Do it!” or “Don’t do that!” orders of the teacher is discipline then we won’t get very far with the child’s education. We will only create servants, which is what the whole system is anyway geared to do. Gandhiji was experimenting and designing an education process to make masters, not servants!
Knowledge in organised education has to be connected to reality. In Nai Talim, we say that knowledge is to be imparted through the medium of craft or through real activity and real experience. That which is connected to real life and meaningful work is true education, not by models and projects. Even calling it “learning by doing” would be diluting it. It is not structured and bookish knowledge as is the case with conventional system. Bookish knowledge would cut them off from real life.
The two basic principles of Nai Talim are that 1) whatever education is imparted, should be with the help of some creative / productive craft of that area / region, i.e. craft is the medium (not that they are all going to go out into the world and only practice that craft for their livelihood) and 2) whatever is earned out of such craft would take care of the current expenditure of the school. Reading and writing is one medium of imparting knowledge, craft is another. Gandhiji used to say, and today it is well known, that children should not be started on writing straight away. We should start with sound, and reading aided by pictures, and then gradually script. These methods of teaching are connected to how children learn first through their senses – the first is by touch, he knows his mother by her touch first. Then come sight and sound. Then at one stage they want to taste each and every thing they come across. It is after going through such stages in their development do we need to reach reading and writing. And time is required for everything. There is a certain time by which the coordination between fingers, eyes and mind happens for writing. Every child needs her own time and space to go through this. But today, we all want our children to learn everything quickly. If we go with the child according to his or her swabhava, then we will see that they all learn ‘quickly’. For instance, for children everything is play – this is in their swabhava. For them there is no difference between study or work and play. They learn through play. So if we understand this and remove the divisions in our teaching between study and play time, then we will help along the child in his learning. Take for instance, how the child learns script. For a small child, even the letters are pictures. So if we go by what the child sees and understands from the real world, then we should start with simply getting them to understanding words and their meaning first. And then, with time, break them down into letters / alphabets. In all this, the attitude of the teacher should be that of a mother. First comes love, then everything else.
This teaching should be for real life, for through out their life, not just a part of it. For instance, why do we separate subjects? History can be taught through geography or vice versa. Language is taught in and through every other subject. So we should be aware of this and not isolate language teaching to one class and not bother about it during other subjects. And at the primary level, the child is coming in contact with more and more in the outside world. So our teaching must correlate with his engagement with every day life and world. Whether we want it or not, children are learning all the time, and outside the class room, from everywhere. Then, better to understand and integrate all that too, so that they can make better sense of their world. In this situation, it becomes important that our schools are connected to reality, which means they can help the children understand societal problems and issues of the neighbourhood. This is being connected to the real world. They should be helped to understand society and its culture and their identity in it.
Today, we find that those who have the knowledge of science and theory do not know to work on ground, practically. And those who are actually working with a tool or machine, may not be aware of the science behind it. We have separated and isolated them. Gandhiji in his education process wanted to join the two, and provide an education that will allow the child to explore and express his inherent qualities and grow to their full potential and become ‘Masters’. An integrated understanding such that every child / person as he grows up can think independently, take initiative, be confident and solve problems. Then the problems of the locality and country will automatically get solutions. If we are living in this city and country, then we take responsibility for it, and this starts with the family and school.
Understanding phenomena is the basic thing. And there are so many methods of understanding. Not just one way. It cannot be that there is only one right way. The education process must be such that the child also recognises this type of responsibility and values within herself. They are taught not through textbooks but by observation and doing and routine work. We do not need a whole lot of material for this. We don’t need costly instruments and equipments. If it is to be real life teaching, then the real world materials are the materials of education also. Children also recognise and relate to material that they find in their real life instinctively. Correlation and integration is easier this way. One way to see their learning is to listen to them – they repeat whatever they have learnt and find interesting. The child must be able to talk about their learning process to their parents.
Discussions
In answer to the question, why did the Nai Talim school close in 1974, Shri. Shiv Dutt spoke about the equations between the Nai Talim Samiti and the Sarva Seva Sangh, and that ultimately it closed due to lack of teachers.
During a discussion on higher education and the Sevagram Vishwa Vidyalaya, Shiv Dutt spoke about how in Nai Talim, whatever is taught in the conventional system can be completed by the students in 8 years. He further added that if the children do not learn certain things going the Nai Talim that they may have learnt in the conventional system, then he is confident that they don’t need those things in their life since Nai Talim is for real life!
Ram, Samanvaya said that there are many schools that have been started by picking up and adapting ideas from Gandhi and Nai Talim. He described a school that had existed just outside Chennai, and that the old woman who had been running it said that she has been doing so along Gandhian lines. She has heard Gandhiji only once and visited Sevagram a few times. He went on to say that however that such an institution exists is not known even to Gandhians in Chennai. His question was whether there has been any attempt to get to know such people who have been inspired by Gandhiji’s ideas and started educational ventures, since this would give us a picture of how these ideas have spread. His concern was that we should not fall into the rut of centralised thinking that Nai Talim can only be in Sevagram and others must follow suit.
Shiv Dutt in answer said that Nai Talim is not a method and that it must be taken in spirit and adaptations will obviously have come. He added that with poor understanding we will just try to correlate and do things absolutely by the letter and that wont work. He stated that innovation, which also implies adaptation, will only work. He further emphasised that the point is that knowledge must be related to real life and inter-relation must happen, then only will real understanding take place and our children will really think. What the student understands is a lesson for the teacher; it is his responsibility to create an environment where leaning happens – he or she is a facilitator.
Another question that came up was that since Nai Talim as a concept is for the age group 7 – 14, what of children before the age of 7. In answer Shiv Dutt said that largely principles of Nai Talim with regard to child and learning will be the same way. He further said that in that age group, they are learning how the outside world works and learning to interact with it and we have to help them in this process.
There was a discussion on whether there is material online on Nai Talim. However it was realised that at the moment there is no comprehensive material. Much of the material is with the Multiversity group and volunteers are needed to upload the material onto the web.
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Shiv Dutt Mishra has been associated with the Nai Taleem Samiti and the Sevagram Ashram for almost a decade. He has authored two books in Hindi, on the concepts and practice of Nai Taleem idea and its spread and variations. He has also been a close aide of Shri. Dharampal in the last 5 years of Dharampalji's life, working closely with him in particular in his Hindi writings. Academically he is trained in economics and law and is a student of Allahabad University.
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Priya
